Host Mel Woods chats with Brian Moylan about the intersection of the franchise and queerness, and Mel chats with real housewife of New York City Racquel Chevremont.
Overview
In this episode, we delve into the cultural impact of the Real Housewives franchise, particularly highlighting its role in advancing queer representation on reality television. The discussion begins with an overview of how the series has evolved from simplistic portrayals of LGBTQ2S+ characters to more nuanced narratives, illustrating the broader societal acceptance of queer identities. Brian Moylan, an expert on Real Housewives, joins to explore the significance of new figures, such as Raquel Chevremont and Mel Corpus, marking the first lesbian couple on Real Housewives of New York City (RHONY). An interview with Raquel offers personal insights into her journey on the show, underscoring the importance of authentic representation and the ongoing need for diverse storytelling in reality TV. The episode ultimately emphasizes the transformative power of media in fostering understanding and acceptance within the LGBTQ2S+ community.
Notes
Introduction to Real Housewives and Queer Representation (00:01 - 05:31)
️ Queer Representation in Reality TV (05:31 - 12:32)
Real Housewives of New York Reboot (12:32 - 22:31)
Interview with Racquel Chevremont (22:31 - 32:43)
Guests
Brian Moylan (he/him) is pop culture commentator covering reality TV since its inception. He is the author of The Housewives: The Real Story of the Real Housewives and president and founder of the Vulture’s Real Housewives Institute. His work has appeared in Gawker, Vice, The Guardian, the New York Times, GQ, W and Town & Country.
Racquel Chevremont (she/her) Brooklyn-born, Bronx-raised Racquel has been an art curator for 20 years and in the words of Vogue magazine is a “lesbian of influence.” Racquel platforms queer racialized artists and is the co-founder of The Josie Club, a Black queer femme and woman supported-and-operated social impact group.
00:00
Voiceover
Next on The Real Housewives of Atlanta.
00:03
Voiceover
How are you?
00:06
Voiceover
Have you ever seen such beautiful feet on a man before in your whole life?
00:07
Voiceover
Gorgeous, gorgeous.
00:08
Voiceover
Don’t I look good for you?
00:09
Voiceover
You look great.
00:10
Voiceover
I done told you.
00:11
Voiceover
I mean, you look—
00:11
Voiceover
But let me tell you what my special secret is.
00:14
Voiceover
Oh, you don’t let the secret out.
00:17
Voiceover
Oh, yeah. Sex three times a day.
00:20
Voiceover
… sex three times a day.
00:21
Voiceover
Three times a day.
00:23
Voiceover
You must be doing quickies, honey.
00:24
Voiceover
Oh, no, no. I don’t do express. I don’t even have—
00:27
Voiceover
Dwight, you are not gonna sit here and tell me that you can have sex—
00:30
Voiceover
I can show you better than I can tell you.
00:37
Mel Woods
That was the endlessly meme-able Dwight Eubanks as the inaugural Housewives gay best friend during a pedicure session with Nene Leakes on season one of The Real Housewives of Atlanta. The GBF Housewife character was as overtly queer as Housewives got in 2008, but, of course, behind the scenes, it was gayer than all get-out and we’ll get to the Andy Cohen of it all later. It would take a while before the Housewives franchise would embrace queerness in front of the camera, beyond a gay best friend accessory or a Katy Perry-style kiss to girl-tease, or a high drama coming out from a secondary character like Rosie on The Real Housewives of New Jersey. But eventually, the Housewives found their way to the party,
01:18
Mel Woods
With 44 titled series internationally and 27 spinoffs. But to be fair, who actually remembers Vanderpump Dogs? The Real Housewives franchise is clearly a cultural phenomenon, and with its legion of gay fans, it’s clearly a queer cultural phenomenon as well. But to be honest, it’s one phenomenon that I never really had the time personally to dive into. And once I reached a point of understanding how vital it is to a certain corner of culture, and particularly queer culture, it honestly seemed a bit overwhelming to even know where to start. I’ve interacted with the franchise on the periphery. I’m a big listener of several podcasts like Las Culturistas or Keep It, where they frequently talk about the series. I see Housewives on things I do watch, like Drag Race or The Traitors, so I’ve absorbed familiarity with it by cultural osmosis, even if I haven’t been a devout watcher myself. And that’s mostly just because I haven’t had the time.
02:12
Mel Woods
But I’m feeling eager to find the time with the changes in the Housewives’ current universe. Actual, real-live lesbians? And after spending some time with culture writer Brian Moylan, the president and founder of the completely fictitious Real Housewives Institute. I feel like I might carve out some more time to finally dive into the back catalogue.
02:36
Brian Moylan
The interesting thing about the history of reality television is that it is inextricably linked to gay people from the very beginning. Like, An American Family has a gay guy coming out. You know, you have Pedro in the first couple seasons of Real World, you have Richard Hatch as the openly gay winner of Survivor, which is really what opened the floodgates to reality television. And so reality TV was always really gay. And Bravo’s entry to the reality stratosphere was Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. And so I think that Bravo, because of Queer Eye, was always kind of gay, but it was a little like lowercase-G gay. The gays got it, but it wasn’t too crazy. But I think the thing about shows like Survivor, Big Brother, other shows that had gay people on it was just gay people playing a game.
03:30
Brian Moylan
Whereas when you get to the Housewives, it’s about people living their real lives. And so it’s just these gay people being gay people. And it has really changed over the course of its almost 20 years in that when it started, the gays were kind of like accessories. It was that Queer Eye mentality of “here’s my fierce hairdresser who helps me pick out outfits and comes to charity balls with me and, you know, makes a bunch of bitchy comments” and kind of like how Carrie Bradshaw had her gay Stanford on Sex and the City. You have that being replicated on Real Housewives and kind of supporting gay male characters. And over the course of that, though, they start to kind of fall away. And, you know, then it’s just more about the women and their families.
04:21
Brian Moylan
And, you know, there’s still a few gay guys around on the edges, but not nearly as many in the early days where it seemed like they were asking the Housewives to be, like, “Do you have a gay? Do you have a gay, you could bring, you know, to maybe jazz things up a bit?” And so, yeah, so it was interesting. They kind of went away and now we’ve had this shift where instead of the gays being ancillary supporting characters, we’re getting lesbian Housewives. And so the gays have gone from supporting silly characters to the main characters. The gay storylines are front and centre, and it’s part of the whole fabric of the show, rather than just a little bit of a seasoning.
05:04
Mel Woods
Brian wrote the 2021 book The Housewives: The Real Story of the Real Housewives, so that, in his own words, quote, “No one would ever have to lose sleep over Housewives.” And no fan will ever again.” It’s a breezy, witty, sharply observed and exhaustive journey in the best way into the universe of the Housewives, how they came to be and who they really are. And in 2025, the book is as current as you’ll get on the Housewives’ world. The only way to be more up to date would be to follow Brian’s own recaps on Vulture, where he also takes his hilarious scalpel to Southern Charm and Summer House. As a writer, Brian manages to do one of the things he says he admires most in other writers: to take silly things seriously. You get the joke and you get the drama in equal measure.
05:50
Mel Woods
Brian became famous for his recaps on the late, great, lamented Gawker. The end of Gawker did sort of indicate the coming shit-ification of media. It was a company that covered a lot of ground, being parent to sites like Deadspin, Gizmodo and Jezebel. It nurtured a lot of great writers. Brian’s tag team recaps with former Gawker staffer and current chief critic of Vanity Fair, Richard Lawson, are regarded as some of the best in the business. Funny and heartfelt, silly and serious. And in his farewell note to Brian, Gawker provocateur Hamilton Nolan described Brian as having, quote, “a heart that will never shut up.” Here’s Brian.
06:27
Brian Moylan
Well, I think it’s interesting that, you know, you talk about this casual queerness, people just showing up, being themselves, and that’s what reality television is all about. And the more authentic you are, the more real you are, the more the audience is going to connect with you. You know, especially now, reality television audiences are so savvy, they can smell someone putting it on from a million years away. But I think that the thing about queerness being just who those people are is really important to representation of queer people in media in general and I think are gaining civil rights over the course of the 25 years that we’ve had reality television.
07:08
Brian Moylan
And I do think that they go hand in hand in a way in that, you know, back before we had marriage equality, the biggest indicator of somebody supporting gay marriage was that they knew a gay person. And the way a lot of people knew gay people was on television. And so, and when you had something like Will & Grace, you could be like, “Oh, he’s a gay guy and I like him, but the actor is straight.” And so it’s okay to like him because he’s not really gay. You can’t say Richard Hatch isn’t really gay because he’s a real person and so … or the Queer Eye guys and they’re celebrating that and saying, “We’re here, we’re queer, let us give you a makeover.”
07:50
Brian Moylan
And so, because of that, I think that was like introducing America to gay people and being like, here’s who we are. This is just us. We’re not this big bad boogeyman that you think we are. We’re just, like, here. And I think that reality of gayness, as opposed to scripted gayness with a kind of escape hatch for people who are uncomfortable with it, was really important in driving the greater acceptance of queer people that we’re seeing now. Not that we’re, like, totally accepted. But, you know ... [laughs]
08:27
Mel Woods
I cite often being a, you know, I was a teenager when Adam Lambert was on American Idol and, like, that was such a big deal.
08:36
Brian Moylan
Right? But even then, like, Adam Lambert couldn’t talk about it until he was off American Idol. And then, you know, so, you know, there were still ways that you had to like, hide it and whatever. Well, I mean, look at Clay Aiken.
08:49
Mel Woods
In this clip from the rebooted Real Housewives of New York, RHONY’s much-loved lesbian couple, Racquel and Mel are hanging out at an art show, talking about Racquel’s mom attending their upcoming engagement party.
09:01
Racquel Chevremont
So now, all right, so we’re going to announce this.
09:04
Voiceover
What, the engagement?
09:05
Racquel Chevremont
Right. Yeah. So we’re gonna have this party and clearly, I’m gonna post about it and I hope that you’re excited about announcing it.
09:13
Voiceover
I-I am very excited. Wait, your mom knows, right?
09:18
Racquel Chevremont
You know how my mom is. It’s like, I don’t think she really likes to celebrate me.
09:23
Voiceover
There’s always this awkward vibe with anything queer-related. Weddings.
09:28
Racquel Chevremont
Yeah, you know how my mom is.
09:30
Voiceover
How would you feel if you invited her and she didn’t show up?
09:35
Racquel Chevremont
I mean, that would be sh***y, right? Like, why wouldn’t she show up for her daughter’s wedding? That’s just something I guess I’ll have to, you know, deal with.
09:48
Voiceover
I mean, I think you should talk to her. You should call her.
09:50
Racquel Chevremont
I should have the kids ask her.
09:52
Voiceover
Um, no. I don’t think that’s a good idea.
09:54
Racquel Chevremont
Can we tell her together?
09:56
Voiceover
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
10:01
Mel Woods
Personal, nuanced couple chat. Just a regular couple of lesbians, Racquel and Mel. That is Racquel Chevremont and Mel Corpus. It’s 2004 and season two of the RHONY reboot, after a two-year hiatus, became a full-on retooling, as in recasting. The OG, very blond, very boozy Housewives were recast as a diverse and aspirational team of women, of which art curator, former model and, in Vogue magazine’s words, quote, “culturally significant lesbian” Racquel Chevermont and her fiancée Mel Corpus, a forensic neuropsychologist, are key members. Here’s Brian on Racquel and Mel.
10:42
Brian Moylan
Racquel and Mel are lesbians with a capital L and like seven S’s. They are lesbians. They’re on motorcycles. They’re wearing leather. They are, you know, Mel is butch. You know, it’s giving us the full fantasy. And you know, what I liked about Racquel joining is I feel like in a lot of these, you know, as we’ve progressed in queer people being on television, being on reality television, the stories get more complex, more about their lives and their marriages and, you know, all sorts of different real-life things that we see with the straight people. And we’ve lost a lot of the narratives about coming out, about dealing with your family, et cetera. And so Racquel comes on as, you know, the femme-y, or half of a lesbian couple.
11:34
Brian Moylan
But she’s also talking about how her coming out affected her relationship with her mother and they don’t really talk anymore, and how that intersects with her identity as a Puerto Rican, and all the intersectionality of all of that. And so Racquel’s coming in being herself, talking about queerness in a way that is both revolutionary in that “I just accept it and I have kids and I am getting engaged and whatever,” but also a little bit more old school in that she’s still talking about the difficulty of coming out as queer, which I think is something that a lot of these narratives now allied over.
12:13
Mel Woods
And, you know, I don’t know if I fully agree with Brian that Racquel and Mel are the first big reality TV examples of capital-L lesbians. I mean, I’ve seen others before in terms of butches or alternative lesbians, think of Melissa King on Top Chef or Captain Sandy on Below Deck. All hail Captain Sandy. But perhaps comparatively, in the Housewives universe, okay, sure. But what I do agree with is the value of queer reality TV representation that is nuanced, revolutionary and old school, as Brian says. Living lives and telling stories that are both challenging and familiar. I asked Brian why he thinks we don’t have more of it.
12:52
Brian Moylan
Someone asked the producer of a straight dating show, you know, why don’t you have more queer people? And they’re like, oh, well, the format just can’t handle it. And it’s like, well, why not make the format handle it? Why not find a way? Why not change your format and do something that’s gonna include queer people? Because we’ve seen that the more diverse things are, the better they do. CBS said five years ago that 50 percent of the people they cast on all their reality shows need to be queer people, people of colour, et cetera, and from that, we not only got a more diverse cast—we got better reality television. And I think the same thing would happen if you tried to integrate some of these dating shows and do some different things, playing around with sexuality and gender in these spaces.
13:37
Brian Moylan
But, reality television as a whole, always reinforces conservative viewpoints. It enforces the status quo. So by conservative, I don’t mean, like Republican versus Democrat, I mean what society tells us to value. So you look at something like The Bachelor, and it says, you’re supposed to, you’re a bunch of women, you’re supposed to fight for a man, and your ultimate prize is that you’re gonna get married to a really hot, successful dude. It shows all the ways that society wants to cling to the idea of normativity, of status quo, and so it’s hard for reality to challenge, to do those things, to say, like, “We’re here, we’re queer. We’re going to change people’s perception.”
14:21
Brian Moylan
And so we are now seeing more obstacles to our acceptance bubbling up again in the kind of political zeitgeist. You look at, you know, in the early days of reality television, you know, you look at everyone on Queer Eye except for Carson Kressley, you know, they’re kind of these, like, butch, attractive, you know, very healthy, this was still, like, the tail end of the AIDS pandemic, you know? They’re telegraphing, “We are normal. We are just like you.” And that’s the message everyone wanted to send. And you have to wait till you get to Christian Siriano. People like that, where it’s like, oh, you know, if you can accept these butch, hot dudes, you know, that’s one thing. But if you can accept a fucking queen, that’s another thing.
15:13
Brian Moylan
But if you can accept Mel, who’s just like, butch dyke on a bike, that’s another thing. And once you can get people comfortable with them, that’s when I think that we really gain a true acceptance.
15:27
Mel Woods
When we come back, more of my conversation with Brian. And we’re going to get queer with a real Real Housewife, Racquel Chevremont, after this. I’m Mel Woods, and this is Get Queer.
15:44
Voiceover
Join me, Daniel MacIvor, for Queer Joy, a seven-part podcast celebrating the queer community champions of the 2024 PTP Pink Awards. Writer, actor, producer Elliot Page; musician, composer Jeremy Dutcher; activist Latoya Nugent; athlete Marie-Philip Poulin; musician, composer Rufus Wainwright; along with legacy winner philanthropist Salah Bachir. I’ll be in conversation with each of our champions along with the change-making charities they have chosen to celebrate. Join me for queer insight, queer wit, queer tenderness, queer fellowship, queer joy. Queer Joy is available now on all major podcast platforms.
16:24
Mel Woods
Welcome back to Get Queer and the final episode for this season, where we’ve been looking at queer influence in reality TV, on the screen, behind the camera and in the community. This episode, “Housewives Get Queer.” In this clip from the rebooted Real Housewives of New York, our beloved Racquel is having lunch with straight housewife Erin Lichy, a self-described quote, “multifaceted serial entrepreneur” whose most recent much-featured-on-the-show venture is an artisanal mezcal. One of the complaints about this current New York cast is that the Housewives seem more like co-workers than friends. But then again, it’s New York. Everybody’s selling something.
17:03
Voiceover
Well, I’m glad that we’ve had a chance to speak because the engagement party is coming up. I just want us all have fun.
17:11
Voiceover
I’m so excited, by the way, but I don’t know what to wear!
17:15
Voiceover
You don’t have an outfit yet?
17:16
Voiceover
Not yet. Madonna could be fun.
17:16
Voiceover
Madonna could be a lot of fun.
17:21
Voiceover
I’m very confused about this theme. There’s, like, 10 people you can dress like, but then you could also dress like a man. Also, It’s ballroom? What are you doing?
17:27
Voiceover
I’m most likely doing Grace.
17:30
Voiceover
Oooooh!
17:31
Racquel Chevremont
We went to a sex shop, Mel and I, the other day. Yeah. And we got me a collar with, like, a leash on it.
17:37
Voiceover
Are you gonna wear it?
17:38
Voiceover
I might.
17:39
Voiceover
Grace Kelly and a collar. I love it.
17:42
Voiceover
Grace Jones, honey, not Grace Kelly! You thought I was gonna be Grace Kelly?
17:46
Voiceover
You go with Grace Kelly.
17:48
Voiceover
You don’t know who Grace Jones is?
17:49
Voiceover
Whoops.
17:51
Voiceover
Whoops!
17:52
Mel Woods
Whoops. But, honestly, the party actually looked like it turned out to be a pretty fun night. Almost everybody showed up. Racquel’s kids, Corey and Elle, were there, 14 and 11. Cool kids. Racquel had actual ballroom stars perform, which was a relief since, disappointingly, it really looked like a lot of the cast did not have a clue about what ballroom is. But a really special moment was at the end when Mel made a speech about how much Racquel’s kids meant to her, with Corey and Elle standing nearby. You could see the genuine affection they all had for one another. And you could see this lovely little family. It was that familiar yet challenging beat that the best of queer reality TV can hit. Some might call it the realness, but these new seasons of RHONY aren’t really flying with the Housewives faithful. Some hardcore fans don’t love the feel of the reboot, with common complaints being a lack of tension and lowercase-D drama. Here’s what Brian has to say.
18:49
Brian Moylan
I will say one of the delightful things about hearing all these complaints is that no one has brought up the gayness. You know, no one has been like, “the lesbians are ruining it.” There has been “the Black people and Puerto Ricans are ruining it,” which is not a good sign, but, you know, at least we are not getting blamed for a change. But I think that the failure of RHONY doesn’t have to do with any of that, really. And I think that the diversity is actually one of the best things about the show. I think the problem is that they wanted to make a Real Housewives of New York that really upscale, really aspirational.
19:29
Brian Moylan
The problem with that is you then get women who are of a calibre that they’re worried about their representation, and they’re worried about how they’re coming across on television and they’re worried about how they look. Women who are, you know, real women that Andy Cohen would want to be friends with in New York.
19:47
Mel Woods
There was no way we’re going to get away with talking about queerness and Housewives without an Andy Cohen moment. Brian is quick to refute the myth that Andy created the Housewives and that he’s, quote, “some kind of all-knowing Svengali who hires and fires women at will.” Brian likens Andy more to a Queen Elizabeth style figurehead than a RuPaul Charles-style emperor. Here’s Brian.
20:11
Brian Moylan
So Andy Cohen was an executive at Bravo, and his first pet project ended up being a bomb, which was Battle of the Network Reality Stars, which was a takeoff on the ’70s and ’80s game show Battle of the Network Stars, where you would have people who starred in different shows on different networks competing in Olympics-style events like swimming and diving and sprints and whatever. And it was kind of silly and fun, and, yeah, and it was great. And like, all the guys were hot. They wear Speedos. Like, was very formative to my gayness watching, you know, Scott Bakula in a tiny bathing suit, like, diving. And so he tried to do this with reality stars. And it wasn’t until the second season of Real Housewives of Orange County, the first season of Real Housewives of New York, where he really stepped into that major role of being the moderator for these reunions, which over time would also become more and more important to the franchise.
21:10
Mel Woods
And so when you’re talking about those reunions, it makes me think about, obviously, another program that he hosts, the reunion for The Traitors, coming as this sort of, when we’re talking about Battle of the Network Reality Stars, that’s, that’s what The Traitors is!
21:26
Brian Moylan
Totally. Yeah, yeah, Andy finally got his wish. It just wasn’t … he just couldn’t find a way to get everybody in the The Traitors in a Speedo.
21:33
Mel Woods
Here’s Andy on Watch What Happens Live, chatting with Racquel and Mel.
21:37
Voiceover
What’s been the most surprising thing for you about being on the show, especially in the line of work you’re in?
21:43
Voiceover
I mean, I actually think that they captured our relationship pretty spot on. We’re very, um, I think that’s exactly how we are in real life. But, you know, of course, because of my profession—
21:55
Voiceover
That’s interesting because as a neuropsychologist, you typically want to keep your personal life, You don’t want them knowing anything about you.
22:06
Voiceover
Right, I think this is clearly fine because I am very limited on it. I’m an accessory to her, but that’s actually similar in real life. I am an accessory to her.
22:15
Voiceover
That’s beautiful, I think.
22:16
Voiceover
Well, by the way, I do just want to say, I mean, I joke around, but you two have a beautiful relationship, and you really have captured people, and I thank you for your representation. It’s really incredible. It’s really great.
22:30
Voiceover
Great.
22:31
Voiceover
It’s really great.
22:32
Mel Woods
Andy, like the commenters and critics and fans, loves Racquel and Mel, and it always comes back to words like “genuine” or “realness” or “unperformed.” And that is certainly how I found Racquel when we spoke.
22:44
Racquel Chevremont
And I love your name, clearly.
22:47
Mel Woods
So I know, I was like, oh, we love, this is the Mel appreciators club here.
22:51
Racquel Chevremont
Oh, my gosh. You know, everybody. I think she’s like, the, the biggest hit of the season. [laughs]
22:57
Mel Woods
To start it all off, the other guest that we have on this episode is Brian Moylan, who described the previous kind of queer representation that Housewives was doing was kind of warming audiences up for something a little bit more out of left field with you and Mel. And so do you see yourself as being radical within the Housewives universe?
23:18
Racquel Chevremont
I guess. I don’t know. Like, I, you know, like, the Housewives universe is a new thing for me. So, but I didn’t know what, you know, how it started with hetero women and their rich husbands [laughs]. So I guess it is maybe radical to have a lesbian on with her partner and, yeah, so go, I mean, let’s, let’s do this. I like radical. I mean, I think it’s great. I am so proud of Bravo because it’s, it was a risk, right? I mean, will the audience want to see two queer women on their iconic franchise? The value of representation. Well, there wasn’t any representation of any sort of queer women when I was growing up on television, right? Maybe the occasional character on, like, Love Boat or something. Then as an adult, The L Word was just revolutionary.
24:14
Racquel Chevremont
I mean, that changed my life. It really, it didn’t, I wasn’t out yet at that point. But if I had been younger, I—Mel and I, talk about this all the time. She’s like, “I think you would actually look differently if you were growing up now.” And clearly I most likely would have never had heterosexual relationships, but I might also present differently.
24:44
Mel Woods
And how do you think, do you see yourself as somebody that people now look to, you know, the, the little baby queers in the closets watching RHONY right now, being able to see this?
24:55
Racquel Chevremont
Yeah, I hope so. I don’t, I mean, I, and I hope that more queer women are watching RHONY now and, and I hope that I am that representation. I hope that maybe, you know, 10, 15 years from now, someone gets interviewed and says, “Watching Racquel and Mel on RHONY really helped me, you know, speak to my parents,” or, you know, that would be amazing. And that, and that’s really one of the reasons why we’re doing this. You know, I wish we had that.
25:25
Mel Woods
One of the things that people have most responded to about you in particular on the show is that, you know, lots of the, the recaps, the comments are very much praised. Kind of how real and, like, human you are as you are very refreshing to a lot of people in your realness.
25:37
Racquel Chevremont
I hope that the viewers feel that they, yeah, they got to know me and, because everything that was shared, that is me. It’s like, I didn’t know to put on a character [laughs], you know, and so when I, when I first started, I, there was a lot of, like, you know, questioning from even Mel, like, oh, my God, are you gonna just be, like, boring or something? Because this is like, is our life that interesting? I don’t know. Are people really going to want to know about our lives or see us or watch us? Because we’re not like, you know, I don’t know what people might expect from a reality TV show. But so, I’m glad that the audience, you know, felt connection.
26:18
Mel Woods
And speaking of Mel, you know, Mel signs up for this alongside you; really kind of highlighting your relationship kind of evolution and building and growing and you know, I think that thankfully we are, representation-wise, we’ve, you know, I’m in my late 20s, I was lucky enough growing up to see queer love onscreen and things like that, but even still, the deep nuances of it and the finicky parts of it and how it interacts within kind of social groups and whatnot is something that we can always use more of, and you’re really just letting it all kind of flow out. As for the world to receive and see.
26:54
Racquel Chevremont
I think we are. You know, I think that some stems from having known each other for so long. We’re just doing us, you know. Is it interesting? I, people love Mel because she gives me a lot of shit and she teases me a lot, I’m sure, right? But that is the reality of what our life is like and what our relationship is like. And you know, what I wish the audience would have seen more of is her relationship with the kids because that’s a very special relationship. And I think that you saw a little bit of it maybe in our engagement party or she spoke to it some there, but it would have been nice. There were some scenes, like, family scenes that I think would, you know, I think the audience might have appreciated and, but yeah, no, that is us.
27:45
Mel Woods
All in all there.
27:50
Racquel Chevremont
Yeah, all in all there. I mean this is, you know, I mean, I think I, I hope that the reality TV world sees this and the, and the response we’ve gotten, and go forward with it and you know, give us more. Because it’s clearly, it’s wanted, right? And it’s needed and it’s definitely necessary. And I, I really just hope that it changes producers’ ideas around who should participate in these shows, right? And what kind of storylines need to be told and shared. So I, in the end, I’m really happy I did it. It was definitely worth doing.
28:36
Mel Woods
And I’m really happy she did it and I’m really happy we’re ending this season of Get Queer on Racquel and Housewives because I think her role there plays into the practice of casual queerness that we’ve been talking about a lot. She wasn’t the first. She wasn’t cast to go against the grain. She was cast to be there and be her full and authentic queer self. And her storylines aren’t just about her queerness, but at the same time, her queerness is essential to her storylines—as it should be. And I’m so glad with this first season of Get Queer, we’ve been able to hit a cross-section of queer reality TV’s most notable moments. Reality TV has, intentionally or not, created a portal for queerness to enter the living rooms and laptops of middle North America, from Edmond, Oklahoma, to Red Deer, Alberta.
29:27
Mel Woods
And it’s been a great series for me, and I’ve been kind of surprised by the depth of this history. I’ve been grateful for the candor and the kindness with which these folks have shared their stories. And I’ve been impressed by their self-awareness about their own roles and positions within that history, and also their ability to move beyond that. In the Watch What Happens Live clip, Andy Cohen talks about representation. And I agree that queer reality TV has succeeded in bringing stories to the forefront and, to a certain degree, in building empathy or at least familiarity with trans stories. People who watch Survivor can’t say they haven’t seen a trans person, and hopefully Zeke’s story makes them more likely to have empathy in real life. But at the same time, representation on screen can only take us so far.
30:15
Mel Woods
In this current political moment of 2025, it’s hard to just focus on wins of seeing someone like me, a transmasc, non-binary person, on TV when millions of people in the U.S. voted for someone who thinks I shouldn’t exist. We need to step out into actual reality and build community and engage people, in addition to these onscreen wins. Racquel Chevremont has spoken in interviews about being conscious of using the platform that Housewives have given her. And that’s what she’s been doing. Racquel is centring queer and racialized stories through community, through artists and through families. Here’s Racquel and Mel speaking to the guests at the end of their engagement party.
30:59
Voiceover
All right, we want to say thank you to everyone for coming. We feel so blessed to have you all here. Mel is going to say a few words because I am notoriously shy about this kind of thing.
31:11
Voiceover
Today’s theme, which is like ballroom culture, which is just like another way of saying for the queer community, chosen family. Sometimes chosen family steps up and becomes like just our family. So today represents people who have supported us in all sorts of ways. And I’m so excited, most excited to start a new life with Corey and Elle. They’re not my this is such a privilege to be in your lives.
31:37
Voiceover
As a mother, we want so badly to have someone who loves your children as much as you do.
31:43
Voiceover
I love you unconditionally.
31:46
Voiceover
How lucky am I, really? Like? Isn’t this what people dream of?
31:53
Voiceover
Cheers. Have fun tonight, yeah!
32:02
Voiceover
Thank you for joining us for this series of Get Queer. Special thanks to our wonderful guests, Zeke Smith, Eve Ng, Wes Culwell, Hunter Hargraves, Arewà Basit, Racquel Chevremont and Brian Moylan. Thank you to the team at CBC Podcasts for their guidance and support. And a massive thanks to our tiny but mighty crew for Get Queer: producer Daniel MacIvor; chase producer Russ Martin; consultant Rachel Matlow; sound engineer for episode one, Lito Howse; and sound engineer for episodes two through six, Jamie Foulds. Get Queer was mixed at Sound Park Studios in Nova Scotia and produced by Pink Triangle Press in Toronto. In Vancouver, I’m Mel Woods. Thanks for listening.